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From: Leslie ( -
Subject: Re: treating people to food
Date: August 4, 2009 at 11:08 am PST

In Reply to: Re: treating people to food posted by EmH on August 2, 2009 at 8:32 pm:

My husband keeps a very separate bank account and he is not vegan. That's why I can't really be mad at him, it doesn't feel right to force my views on him, it was his decision to do what he did. And the situation was made more difficult by the fact that we very much like this boy, exceptionally so, actually. I wouldn't expect a sixteen year old with his background to have any other perspective on the 4-H matter, I think you have to start with where people are and go from there. I don't think he meant anything divisive, to him it is just a question, not understanding or empathizing with the underlying issues of ethics of what exactly 4-H is all about (betrayal, as you said, I agree completely with your assessment.)

4-H is evil in the guise of education, in my opinion. But that opinion has come through my own development as a person, and I don't think I should force that on anyone else, husband or otherwise, they have to have their own epiphany. I think I will mention it to the boyfriend, however, just to solidify my feelings on the issue and why it is so offensive to me.

As for the husband, well, perhaps I can make him see that in his generousity (he is exceptionally generous to people he likes) he enabled someone to participate in this hideous ritual of betrayal. But again, that is something he has to come to see himself, and he has the right to spend his very hard earned money on whatever he wants to spend it on.

It's just really hard being married to someone who doesn't fully share your ethics, in most subjects it's not a big deal, but in this issue it is, because, as I ask people who insist that what they do is a "choice," does your choice require a victim, yes or no. All the rest is just noise.

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