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From:	pradtf (70.67.160.177)
Subject:	I'll tell you where that falls apart :)
Date:	September 21, 2008 at 8:43 pm PST

In Reply to: I'll tell you where that falls apart :) posted by LL on September 21, 2008 at 6:12 pm:

you make a reasonable case, ll, except for a few problems.

"Islam places great value on peace."
well of course it does - so does judaism and christianity. they all came from the same source. unfortunately, they all place great value in violence too, though admittedly one has plenty of leeway for 'interpretation'.

for instance, the qur'an says war in self-defense is ok, but people can have very different ideas of what self-defense is.

more locally, the an-nisa explicitly gives permission for husbands to beat their wives. this act of violence be it symbolic or otherwise is still violence.

there is considerable debate amongst islam scholars about these matters - and the situation isn't much different for the judaio-christian contigent (though i do think that jesus did try to clear up a few bits of nonsense).

so it is fine to say that a religion places great value in peace, but that doesn't negate the great opportunity it provides for violence either. after all, these religions were created during times of great violence.

now, if we look at the actual violence itself, would you agree that there are presently far more reported incidents of violence perpetrated by those claiming to be muslims on a worldwide scale? (i am only talking about the present, because of course historically it may well be quite another matter).

your point about the steak is of course somewhat valid, but still the perception that is created on a vast scale is that muslims are involved in this violence. you can say that these people really aren't muslims even though they say they are, but i don't think that the perception for the vast majority of people will change.

to dissociate the inherent nature of a philosophy from its practice may be a valid idea, but if people keep doing things in the name of that philosophy (over and over again), surely it brings into question

1. what there is in that philosophy that these people utilize to justify their acts of violence (ie does islam really value peace?)

2. whether people who claim to adhere to this philosophy are likely to commit similar acts of violence

while you and i will probably agree that these suspicions may not be morally right, we are quite a distance away from that steak in the name of vegetarianism.

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