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From: Gina (
Subject:         Re: goodbye forever
Date: August 31, 2014 at 8:47 pm PST

In Reply to: goodbye forever posted by heidi jane on August 31, 2014 at 7:14 pm:

Dear Heidi,
I have been involved with raw veganism for some years (not exclusively raw whatsoever) but have studied most of the big name teachers and tried out their protocols.
I have personally seen healings with raw food when people have also used herbs. For example, my friend was cured of liver cancer in 7 months while on a juice fast and using extensive herbs and colonics/enemas.
I have also seen people try only raw vegan food and not be able to get rid of fibroids and cancer (and the end wasn't pretty). yes, some are able to heal from cancer without herbs, but I have seen way more reliable successes with herbs and the right diet.
I have also seen horrible orthorexic nightmares.

Wake up Heidi Jane and listen to what everyone is saying. Mike Arnstein got 26 cavities in 1.5 years!!!!!!!! ON this supposedly BEST diet...
I was in shock for a day about that because did it take him two years to reveal that to the raw community?

Swayze foster had her disaster with 13 cavities on raw vegan.

Tim Van orden is not having an easy time with his teeth and he is in denial that his diet has anything to do with it.
You see, the ones who are upset on this forum are the ones who are NOT in denial about these tragedies to the human body.

I have a friend who is a total orthorexic and still suffers from the Hygienic mindset. He is so underweight and it has demineralized his spine. I have seen too many teeth disasters. My friend will literally starve himself if he can't food combine correctly. Even if he's hungry, he won't eat fruit after a salad and will go to bed hungry. He has often starved himself to avoid cooked food, oh, the evil poison. So, some of us have seen the disasters and are trying to remedy the situation.

There is a big debate Heidi Jane because people have DIED, lost their teeth, lost their babies!, and lost their health. So people are mad and you can't sweep that under the rug.

The best thing you can do now is to sober up, drop all the romanticism, the sentimentality and wise up. The fact is that fresh, living raw vegan food is the BEST, but that doesn't mean you should starve yourself and everyone has to be okay that it's better to feed the body on the next best food available (even if it's cooked starch) than to starve. Some idealists would never be caught in the next best scenario and encourage the idealists to move to the tropics, but some of us here are thinking of global practicality not elitist dreams.

Personally, I feel like this forum has been so therapeutic. An older friend of mine had been on Doug's 811 rv diet for a couple of years and he was so boastful about not going to the doctor and one day he died of a heart aneurysm. I often wondered if his diet was mineral deficient that might have weakened his arteries. I won't know, but the BIG problem was how confident he was on the diet, how he thought he would never need to go to the doctor...and he did not go. He was in his early 70s and he should have gone for his annual check up and the aneurysm would have been detected, but he didn't. And so I am upset about Doug's arrogance towards the medical community and it rubs off on his followers. He was way too young to die and he had just finished remodeling his home. He never go to invite anyone over. So they had the funeral at his house.

I don't think I am bashing...I am venting...and trying to avenge the fallen.

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