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From: MM (
Subject:         Re: It's still going on...
Date: August 25, 2014 at 9:38 pm PST

In Reply to: Re: It's still going on... posted by heidi jane on August 25, 2014 at 8:58 pm:


Michelle, I say about the personal vendetta because
you appear to me to be the ring leader of all on
here, and you were obviously reading but not posting
after your last post from 2011 to now know what
happenned with this recent change of formum format
and so you jump in on it all reposting whole lotsa


I was sent the link to what was going on on this
site from someone on FB. I honestly NEVER go on here
and had no interest at all in being here.

A little bit of background: I think you may have
been a member of the Ning forum I started called
"Raw Natural Hygiene?" After what I learned about
Jane Mutti's death, I deleted my account and removed
all contact with any followers of 811. it was on
30badsucks that I came public with what I knew and
this was back in 2011. I said my peace and that was
that. I found out about Leah's story early this
year. I wanted people to come forward but they

I feel a strong sense of obligation to other
people's safety and well-being. I believe in a
higher source to answer to and my conscience is
clean. Whether or not I am a "ringleader" as you say
I do not know. I know that only a handful of people
listened to me back when Jane died. Only now that
Harley has gotten involved are people listening.
Harley himself apologized because even he didn't
believe me back when I posted it. I would post this
information on ANYONE who would do something like
this to protect people. It is not against who Doug
IS but about what he has DONE and what he refuses to


Even though you consulted with/learned from others,
i was led to believe that doug was your main
influence/teacher of all


Doug and I have had very little contact over the
years. I have never consulted with him and took one
3-day culinary course event with him in 2009. I have
learned what I know from many sources. Doug is just
one of many.


I haven't heard any reports at others fasting
retreats because i haven't researched it, but just
assummed you had since you appear to be all bent
over doug mainly out on witch hunt to get him so to
say, so I get upset and jump in as his friend to
defend/help him as i see/feel intuitively
differently is all as deaths happen all the time in
hospitals and out of hospitals when someone is in
the care of qualified health professionals which is
why malpractice insurance is so high as people are
just so quick to sue over this and that etc. etc.


You're right. Doctors mess up all the time. ANd they
get sued as they should. Doug has removed what he
does from the US so he CAN'T be sued. If any doctor
in the US has done what Doug has done, they'd have
their licenses revoked too. We need to keep the
alternative health movement honorable. BECAUSE the
medical establishment has lost so much trust due to
interest in profits over people, it's important that
the alternative movement become the same. We need to
hold people accountable for bad conduct. Again, I
banned Loren Lockman from Raw Natural Hygiene when I
found out about him and Doug and Grant joined the
band wagon in sharing how bad Loren was. I am not
singling out Doug. I have not heard of ANY deaths at
True North nor at any other retreats although there
aren't many fasting retreats. Herbert Shelton had
his fasting retreat shut down by the state due to a
death and he was sued. That's all I know. If you
know of more please share.


Michelle, you make very good sensible points and I
also in turn do and I understand you better now, so
thank you muchly for helping to see differently from
your side and also 'enough already' i think/feel as
this is all very stressful thus not health
promoting, and so just think Michelle that 'what
comes around goes around' thus eventually good will
prevail over evil no matter how long it might take.
God works in very mysterious ways now...... ;)


I am glad we were able to connect and share
information and get to know one another better. I am
sorry it was under these circumstances. I completely
agree it is stressful and draining and very, very
sad. But also healing and necessary for people to
know the truth and move on.

Confrontation is never fun nor easy, but when people
avoid it then cases like Leah happens and that's not
good either.

Take care and I wish you well.

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