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From: el-bo (
Subject:         jeff - out of the frying pan, and into the fire
Date: August 22, 2014 at 12:20 pm PST

firstly, thanks for showing a commitment to keeping things real. despite
everything, i am glad that i can still be a little shocked at the revelation that
doug was bare-faced lying about censoring this board...jeez !! what is up with
these people

however, i wanted to echo some thoughts that have been shared earlier, while
adding some of my own

while you have declared no allegiance to harley, and denied him having any
organisational role in this forum, there is an implicit link in your naming re-
branding of the forum. despite rawtill4 having been coined by someone else
before h & f got there (that's ok. some people spend their whole lives riding
on the coat-tails of others), the rawtill4 program now IS harley and freelee.
you have now essentially become another front-end for their program. should
that worry you ?? i doubt i am the only one who thinks so.

you may not have been familiar with 30badsucks, which was quite an
interesting experiment. not that you are going for that kind of style, here, but
some experiences can definitely be taken from it. i know you believe that if
you just let people fight it out, that eventually they will find their level. not
that it is impossible, but it can quite easily go the other way. what is more
likely, is that those left that are truly interested in trying for 100% raw, will all
disappear. some will still follow doug, and others will look elsewhere. this will
just become an extension of harley's forum. it is easy to think that those
interested in rt4 will join 30bad. but, really, that place is still a police-state,
operating under a ning facade. so, this place will be dominated by harley,
peddling his crap.

another problem you have (that could intensify the above issue), is that this
forum is a real mess to navigate. it kinda worked when it was all 'ask doug',
but a free-for-all is just gonna be unusable.

another issue - censorship. 'sucks' was famously a fault. in
hindsight, it probably needed some control. there existed a huge body of
evidence of the inconsistencies and lies from doug, harley and others. were
the site still to exist, harley would not be able to deny knowledge in this
whole stinking affair. he was right there, for all of it, and usually attacking
those who dared to share the kind of info that could have ensured leah didn't
suffer as she did

you have been very clear that doug is still welcome to post, and that harley is
also welcome. that's fair enough. but the re-naming shows allegiance to
someone who has been caught out in more lies than doug. amongst harley's
synpathisers/enablers/sycophants, it seems common to give harley a free
pass on the basis that his advice never hurt anyone. is it/ are they really that
simple ??

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