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From:	ric (24.144.183.99)
Subject:	No 80/10/10 Tryptophan, Folate, or B6 deficiency; Depression; 5-HTP risk
Date:	January 21, 2012 at 7:38 pm PST

In Reply to: Depression on 811 diet posted by Leanne on January 18, 2012 at 2:40 pm:

From the above post, it was stated a doctor said that the 80/10/10 diet is low in tryptophan, folic acid and B6, and that this was the cause of depression. The patient then increased overts to a 30% fat level to alleviate this stated micro-nutrient deficiency, and also started supplementing 5-HTP.

I disagree that the 80/10/10 diet is deficient in tryptophan, folate, or B6.

I have been lfrv for 11.5 years. I came to lfrv with a history, (and a Cleveland Clinic diagnosis), of major depression and schizophrenia. I can get a reoccurrence of those symptoms on lfrv, but the symptoms are removed by moving my overt fats to flax and chia seeds and away from avos. nuts and other seeds. Flax and chia seeds are omega 3 biased, while avos, nuts and (the other) seeds are omega 6 biased. There is absolutely no need to go higher than 10% fat with the flax or chia seeds. I still stay easily within the 80/10/10 limits.

I also sparingly supplement B12, as needed.

Since 6 months after going lfrv over 11 years ago, I have not taken a single MD or OTC drug.

Here is where I believe doctors and others go wrong on nutritional assessments regarding the low-fat raw-vegan (80/10/10) diet.

Typically, nutritional micro-nutrient content lists go by micro-nutrient content per mass instead of micro-nutrient content per calorie. This will unfairly showcase the more macro-nutrient dense foods such as nuts, seeds, beans, grains, meat, fish and dairy. Fruits and vegetables will invariably be at the bottom of those lists because of their higher mass, due to their higher water and fiber content.

An “apples to apples” nutritional comparison *must* go by a calorie to calorie comparison, and not be based on mass.

Below, by calorie to calorie comparison, we see that the 80/10/10 diet is not deficient in tryptophan, folate or B6. There is absolutely no need to go higher on fat levels than 10% and thus incur the risks of heart disease and other problems associated with those levels.

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Tryptophan per 100 calories:

almonds 37.2 mg
walnuts 25.9 mg
sunflower seed 59.5 mg
avocado 15.6 mg

lettuce 60.0 mg
spinach 170.0 mg
celery 56.25 mg

banana 10.1 mg
strawberry 24.9 mg
oranges 22.2 mg
cucumber 33.6 mg

Recommended daily intake (per wiki) of tryptophan for human adult weighing 154.3 lbs (70 kg) is 280 mg.

As seen from the above sampling, a diet of raw fruits and greens easily results in the recommended intake of tryptophan, without the the use of overt fatty foods such as nuts, seeds or avocados.

A high fat vegan diet yields the same heart disease and other diseases which result from standard American diet.

There is no need to go above 10% fat or 10% protein to reach the recommended level of tryptophan.

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Folate per 100 calories:

almonds 5.02 mcg
walnuts 14.98 mcg
sunflower seeds 39.82 mcg
avocado 4.98 mcg

lettuce 253.3 mcg
spinach 681.8 mcg
celery 257.1 mcg

banana 22.5 mcg
strawberry 75.0 mcg
orange 69.4 mcg
cucumber 46.7 mcg

Recommended daily intake of folate for human adult is 400 mcg. For a woman planning pregnancy it is 600 mcg.

As seen from the above sampling, a diet of raw fruits and greens easily results in the recommended intake of folate.

There is no need to go above 10% fat or 10% protein to reach the recommended level of folate.

There is no need for pregnant women eating 80/10/10 to supplement folic acid.

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Vitamin B6 per 100 calories:

almonds 0.03 mg
walnuts 0.08 mg
sunflower seeds 0.14 mg
avocado 0.16 mg

lettuce 0.56 mg
spinach 1.00 mg
celery 0.57 mg

banana 0.41 mg
strawberry 0.15 mg
orange 0.16 mg
cucumber 0.27 mg

Recommended daily intake of B6 for human adult is 1.3 mg. For a pregnant woman it is 1.9 mg. For a lactating woman it is 2.0 mg.

As seen from the above sampling, a diet of raw fruits and greens easily results in the recommended intake of B6.

There is no need to go above 10% fat or 10% protein to reach the recommended level of B6.

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Regarding 5-HTP, I am not saying that spiking ones bloodstream with serotonin (5-HTP) won't mask the symptoms of depression, just as other OTC herbs/drugs and MD prescription drugs mask symptoms of illness. I myself was on anti-depressant drugs for 10 years before going lfrv.

I am saying I personally would not recommend using 5-HTP, nor would I ever use it myself. Below is some info from wiki regarding the risks of 5-HTP:

Because 5-HTP has not been thoroughly studied in a clinical setting, possible side effects and interactions with other drugs are not well known.

Administered serotonin has been shown to increase the risk of heart valve disease in animals. 5-HTP has not been subjected to this test. Oral 5-HTP results in an increase in urinary 5-HIAA, a serotonin metabolite, indicating that 5-HTP is peripherally metabolized to serotonin, which is then metabolized. This might cause a false positive test in tests looking for carcinoid syndrome.

5-HTP can cause hypertension by increasing plasma renin activity, when not co-administered with a peripheral aromatic L-amino acid decarboxylase inhibitor, such as carbidopa or benserazide.

Direct and indirect evidence for possible yet unproven risks and side effects associated with 5-HTP when overdosed includes heart valve damage or disease (cardiac fibrosis).

Other risks are also noted at wiki.

All drugs and drug-like herbs, including 5-HTP, have deleterious side effects.

There is no contra-indication, though, to healthful living.

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A true deficiency in tryptophan, folate and B6 may well cause depression. The 80/10/10 diet, though, is *not* deficient.

Increasing overts including avos, nuts and most seeds, while not including flax/chia, will increase the O6 side of the O3 to O6 ratio.

There are high quality studies showing the positive effects with mental illness by elevating the O3 side of the O3 to O6 ratio. Ideally it should be 1:1. I do best with it slightly biased towards the O3 side. I do this easily staying within the 80/10/10 macro-nutrient guidelines.

A diet of fruits and adequate greens, without any overts, is automatically 1:1 on the O3 to O6 ratio.

Positive effects with mental illness are also gained by removing all grains from the diet. This, of course, is built into 80/10/10 diet.

I hope this is of help to all sufferers.

love and all the best,
ric

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