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From: preston (
Subject:         Re: Thanks Jeff... but please...
Date: January 13, 2010 at 5:24 am PST

In Reply to: Thanks Jeff... but please... posted by Milo on January 10, 2010 at 11:40 pm:

Are you familiar with 80/10/10 raw veganism? Sounds like you eat similarly, but you never mentioned it. Anyway if you haven't read it yet I recommend Dr. Graham's book. "80/10/10 raw vegan" is basically high fruit, high greens, like you're eating. The book covers a lot of the hows and whys of such a diet. There's an 80/10/10 forum here on vegsource. See also a website called 30 bananas a day.

You mention the desire to gain muscle in the first post, are you doing intense heavy weight lifting? That's the best way to gain lean muscle mass. I also had some difficulties gaining much muscle on such a diet (but I have always been a hard gainer). I am now looking at lowering my reps and upping the weight, as well as experimenting with eating larger less frequent meals (I'm trying out 1 meal a day, or at least eating only in a daily 4 hour period) to experiment with its hormonal and nervous system effects. I've also heard it's important to very often do exercises which work a lot of muscle groups at once or very large muscle groups like the quads, every workout, to trigger the central nervous system to grow the muscles. Just doing isolation exercises will not be as effective for growing mass. Things such as squats and deadlifts should be staples I've heard, for properly triggering the CNS and hormones to promote growth in other parts of the body as well. Also, if you're practising CRON, expect difficult muscle gains.

For more on Jeff's opinion on high-fruit high-greens, you'll want to read through the 80/10/10 thread he contributed to below, he gave a lot of input throughout it. IIRC, the main argument against it is that there has never been a civilization found which thrived on such a diet. So you have to ask yourself how much that means to you. To me not a lot; that's more a question of history, tradition, economics, nutritional science knowledge, and the fact that cheap oil greatly enables such a diet. That argument is like saying "There has never been a Pakistani-American in the NBA, therefore there never will be." The statement doesn't warrant the conclusion. Just my opinion.

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