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From:	Marios (94.66.60.133)
Subject:	Re: Fruits and Vegetables consumption
Date:	December 6, 2008 at 4:49 pm PST

In Reply to: Fruits and Vegetables consumption posted by Lukas on November 18, 2008 at 11:37 pm:

Dear Lukas,

Your sayings are very well supported. You are right that we should have more than one parameter in mind, in our effort to see which is the best diet for us. But i have to say a few things here for you and any one willing to read.

First, about greens. Sure they are unapealling and not easily digested by contemporary people but this is not enough as an argument, in my opinion. Nor is that apes bonobos e.t.c eat mostly fruits.

Victoria Boutenko proved that apes eat 30-40% of their calories from greens, on average. This is refered to her book about greens and the dvd's as well. So if we were to eat as apes do again we fall sort of vegetables and greens.

Second, contemporary man, unfortunately is quite a weaker organism than he ever had been in history of mankind. His jaws and chewing abillity are weaker, his digestive system is sicker and weaker and his stomach has a lower hydrochloric acid outpout than ever before. With these facts it is more than probable that greens and vegetables look and taste so unapealling to us because we no longer can process them the way we could !!

Also modern agriculture methods make vegetables more fiibrous and much less tasty. I remember 20-25 years ago when i went to the groceries i could get a high by smelling the celeries and carrots and tomatoes' fragrancies there... Now the aromas are lacking, the taste is dull and the vegetables have a tough looks and texture, because they have made them that way in order to be resistant to climate changes, insects, transportation e.t.c....

More. :

Have you ever eaten a simple pasta with naturall tomato suace? Or a simply baked potato or baked chestnuts?

Many people would digest these foods perfectly and they will find them apealling and tasty too. !

These foods are also carb loaded and they can support you calorically as wel as - if not more than - fruits.

So the argument that fruits are more caloric dense or appealling to us is not enough to support that our ideal diet is a fruit based diet as you say.

I am 34, and i confess that i haven't reached a conclussion on what is the perfect diet for human beings. Because people leaved healthfully for tjousand upon thousands on years on various diets, and we have to admit that most of the people and most civilizations so far supported themselves nor with raw foods or ETL diet but just on naturall unproseced foods, mostly plants but some animal origin food as well. BILLION of people in Asia are living for thousands of years now on Rice. Here in Greece my ancient ancestors consumed lots of beans, fruits, vegs and barley, but they included animal products such as fish - in small proportions.

They were healthy and they produced a remarkable civilization - Have you ever heard of Hipocrates, Socrates, Plato, Alexander the great, Theater, Music, Olympic games, Medicine, Philosophy, e.t.c?

How can we say that our best diet is that of our closest animal species? I mean human is not an ape. Apes yes, they really thrive on a fruit based diet but what about us? Maybe, - i cannot prove it, but it's just an idea that i want to share with everyone here - the cooking of food not only did not poison the human species but helped it develop to the distict species that it is now. Because with the use of fire human gained access to much more food selection and choices than apes did, and this broading of sellectios played a role in his brain development. We do not have any cultural signs from hunter gotherer eras - other than some drawings in wall cages - but we do have remarkable signs of cultural and scientific development of human species from the agricultural era of its'

I believe that raw food is a very impotant and indispensable part of a healthy diet, but so far i am not convinced that a 100% raw diet or a fruit based raw diet is the best for us in any way. Digestibility of the food is not enough an argument, nor are the appealling of the food, nor the sweet taste (if it were then we might as well eat cookies and candies all day) nor that bonobos or other apes eat this way. There are many people in this earth that were born in areas or climates that did not favor fruit growth, and they were raised and raised their children and generation upon generation were raised on diets based on other food than fruits..Is this wrong?.

We need to have more data and more insights and learn more about ourselves and get more in touch with our true being (not only the body but the soul and the mind AND the spiritual perspective we are) to understand which is the best diet for us.

What we do know so far is the foods that are deffinattely NOT good for us, such as processed and commercilizes and industrilized foods. And we also know that diets predominated by animal products never yield healthy results for humans.

Please whatever ideas, suggestions, opinions or corrections has anyone to contribute here is more than welcome.

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