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Howard Lyman on Oprah
April 15th, 1996
Show transcript
Mad Cow Disease, it's a medical mystery spreading panic across
the Atlantic. In England, 20 puzzling deaths of young people
in recent years may be linked to a rare and fatal brain disorder
in cattle. British scientists believe the victims may have eaten
diseased beef, as many as 10 years ago. The afflicted cattle
shake and contort like mad dogs before what must be an excruciating
and inevitable death.
In human beings, dementia and paralysis precede death. Scientists
speculate that cattle contract the disease by feeding on sheep
parts that are infected with another disease. A practice officially
banned in England in 1989. The disease can take years to develop.
McDonald's and Burger King in England have stopped selling British
beef. Europe has refused to import it and now Britain will destroy
4.7 million older cows that may have fed sheep parts. The scare
is turning a nation of beef eaters away from their favorite
food. Could it happen here? American officials say no, but so
did the British government until last month. Though the link
between cattle and humans has not been definitively proven,
and there's no test for Mad Cow Disease, the fear it has generated
may destroy an industry and dramaticall alter the way we eat.
Participants:
- Oprah Winfrey - host
- Howard Lyman - Executive director of Humane Society's Eating
With Conscience
- Gary Weber - National Cattlemen's Beef Association Representative
- Dr. Will Hueston - United States Department of Agriculture
representative
Oprah:
Dr. Gary Weber is with the National Cattlemen's Beef Association.
He says our government regulations has seen to it that our beef
supply is safe. My next guest disagrees, he believes the United
States will face a similar crisis within the next ten years,
have mercy. Howard Lyman is a former cattle rancher, turned
vegetarian. You hear me? Former cattle rancher turned vegetarian,
we wanna know why, and executive director of the Humane Society's
Eating With Conscience Campaign. You said this disease cold
make aids look like the common cold?
Howard: Absolutely.
Oprah: That's an extreme statement you know?
Howard: Absolutely, and what we're looking at right now
is we're following exactly the same path that they followed
in England. Ten years of dealing with it as public relations
rather than doing something substantial about it. 100,000 cows
per year in the United States are fine at night, dead in the
morning. The majority of those cows are rounded up, ground up,
fed back to other cows. If only one of them has Mad Cow Disease,
has the potential to effect thousands. Remember today, the United
States, 14% of all cows by volume are ground up, turned into
feed, and fed back to other animals.
Oprah: But cows are herbivores, they shouldn't be eating
other cows.
Howard: That's exactly right, and what we should be doing
is exactly what nature says, we should have them eating grass
not other cows. We've not only turned them into carnivores,
we've turned them into cannibals.
Oprah: Now see, wait a minute, wait a minute. Let me
just ask you this right now Howard. How do you know the cows
are ground up and fed back to the other cows?
Howard: Oh, I've seen it. These are U.S.D.A. statistics,
they're not something we're making up.
Oprah: Now doesn't that concern you all a little bit,
right here, hearing that?
Audience: Yeah!
Oprah: It has just stopped me cold from eating another
burger!
Audience: (Claps loudly and shouts) yeah!
Oprah: Dr. Gary Weber says we do not have a reason to
be concerned, but that in itself is disturbing to me, cows should
not be eating other cows!
Dr. Gary Weber: Well, let me clarify that. There is a
reason to be concerned. We've learned from the tragedy in Great
Britain and made a decision here both government...
Oprah: Well we learned in the past two weeks...
Dr. Gary Weber: No, no, we started taking initiatives
ten years ago to make sure this never happened here. Let me
go back and correct a couple of things. Number one, we do not
have BSE in this country and we have a ten year history of surveillance
to document that based on science, we do not have it. Also,
we have not imported any beef in this country since 1985 from
Great Britain.
Oprah: Are we feeding cattle to the cattle?
Dr. Gary Weber: There is a limited amount of that done
in the United States...
Audience: (groans)
Dr. Gary Weber: Hang on just a second now... the food
and drug administration...
Oprah: Cause I have to just tell you that is alarming
to me, that is alarming to me.
Dr. Gary Weber: Yeah, now keep in mind that before you
view the ruminant animal, the cow is simply vegetarian, remember
that they drink milk.
Oprah: So you're saying that this could never happen
here?
Dr. Gary Weber: No, we're doing everything we need to
do.
Oprah: I know, but Dr. Weber are you saying that we've
been watching this for ten years, are you saying that every
cow that's ever died, they've examined the reason why that cow
died, before they ground that cow up and fed him to another
cow?
Dr. Gary Weber: No that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying
we do not have the disease here, we've got ten years of data,
the best scientists in the world who are looking for this. Over
250 trained technicians and veterinarians around the country.
Everyone's watching for this, everyone would like to in a way,
want to find this if it is there because they want to protect
our industry and of course the public.
Oprah: OK, lets meet this man, Dr. Will Hueston is with
the United States Department of Agriculture. Dr. Hueston, you
think Mad Cow is a threat to U.S. cattle?
Dr. Will Hueston: I think it's an issue we need to be
on top of at all times but there's no evidence at all that we
have the Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy in the United States.
Oprah: What dya' just say?
Audience: (laughs)
Dr. Will Hueston: What I, yes, I've given you a mouthful,
but I think it's important Oprah, and especially, and I appreciate
you having this show to help clarify some of these issues...
Oprah: Yeah, me too!
Dr. Will Hueston: That the term Mad Cow stimulates a
whole lot of feelings and concerns in people, and remember cows
can get mad for a lot of reasons. This is a disease, a specific
disease in Great Britain, a tragic disease of cattle called
Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy and we use they initials B.S.E.
Oprah: OK, I wanna know why Howard, who used to be a
cattle rancher, it was a cattle rancher you were?
Howard: Yes.
Oprah: Why are you now a vegetarian? What made you turn?
Howard: Well, what I know about what is happening out
there with cattle, like feeding cows to cows, I look at it and
say that's a risk that I am unwilling to take. The same things
that we've heard here today, is exactly what was heard for ten
years in England, "Not to worry, we're on top of this."
You know, we've had a ban in the United States of feeding sheep
to cows for a long time, but when they went out and looked,
25% of the renderers admitted that they were paying no attention
to it. Voluntary bans do not work and if we continue to do what
we're doing, feeding animals to animals, I believe we are going
to be in exactly the same place because I've heard all of these
things before in England, we're on top of this, it's safe, we
would not put the public at risk, they have put the public at
risk.
Oprah: Yeah, of course they said that, yeah. Even Dr.
Weber, you know that of course they said that, because what
else are they going to say? What else are they going to say?
They going to say public you are at risk, some of you may die
and the cows are going to go crazy, they couldn't say that.
Howard: Ask yourself the question. Today we could do
exactly what the English did and cease feeding cows to cows.
Why in the world are we not doing that? Why are we skating around
this and continuing to do it when everybody sitting here knows
that, that would be the safest thing to do, why is it, why is
it? Because we have the greedy that are getting the ear of government
instead of the needy and that's exactly why we're doing it.
Audience: (applause)
Oprah: We have a lot of questions about this Mad Cow
Disease that we'd like to try to get resolved, because we don't
want to just alarm you all, but I have to tell you, I'm thinking
about the cattle being fed to the cattle and that's pretty upsetting
to me, Yes mam?
Audience Member:I just had one question, I'm confused
about why cattle are being fed lamb and why are they being fed
beef?
Howard: Well, what it comes down to is about half of
the slaughter of animals is non-sellable to humans. They either
have to pay to put it into the dump or they sell it for feed,
they grind it up turn it into something that looks like brown
sugar, add to it all of the animals that died unexpectantly,
all of the road kills and the euthinized animals,. add it to
em', grind it up and feed it back to other animals. It's about
as simple as you can be. We are doing something to an animal
that was never intended to be done.
Oprah: OK, so the point I wanted to ask Dr. Weber, and
I think I asked this earlier, but let's get this clear, Oh that's
your point isn't it?, during the commercial break, oh the lady
in black, what was your question? You can ask it.
Audience Member: My question was, are the animals tested
before they're ground? Are all of the animals that are ground
into feed that are fed to the cows?
Dr. Gary Weber: There is no test other than analyzing
the brains, and sinc we don't have animals with these symptoms,
not every brain is going to be evaluated.
Oprah: OK, so the answer to your question is no.
Dr. Gary Weber: Its no, that's correct. No animal can
enter the plant that has any of these symptoms, by law. And
there's veterinarians and inspections and it doesn't happen
Howard and you know it. It doesn't happen.
Howard: Oh come on, let's get real! Any animal that is
not staggering around goes in there, you know as well as I do,
we have 100,000 cows per year that die. They take 2,700 brains
out, of those less than a hundred of them, they look for preons,
they were looking for Spongiform. We ended up feeding downed
cows to mink, the mink come with the disease, transferred it
to animals, the animals came down with it, and your sitting
here telling everybody that it's safe, not true.
Dr. Gary Weber: Howard, Howard, I understand...
Audience: (applause)
End of Segment
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