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Exchange
between Mr. Cohen and Jeff Nelson in which Nelson requests Mr. Cohen remove
Mr. Robbins' article from Mr. Cohen's websites, resulting in Mr. Cohen's
decision to leave VegSource.
================
Subject:
howdy
Date:
Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:06:35 -0800
From:
Jeff Nelson
Organization:
VegSource Interactive, Inc.
To:
Robert Cohen
Rob,
sorry I didn't get a chance to return your call yesterday. I read
what you wrote on the CBS News piece and it sounds
like the same old
story. Cable's really put the crunch on the Big 3 networks,
so seeing
their news divisions whore for the diary industry
comes as no big
surprise.
On
another topic, I know that John Robbins asked you to remove his
article from your soytoy and soy4life websites
the other day, and I see
that this hasn't happened yet. I think he asked that you link
to the
article on his site instead, if you want to, as
we always do to his
articles on VegSource. Could you see to it that Dave does
this very
soon rather than later?
We're
heading out soon for a long weekend in the snow, but I'll be
checking in on email.
Thanks,
Jeff
================
Subject: howdy
Date: Fri,
18 Jan 2002 20:33:50 -0500
From: Robert Cohen
To:
Jeff Nelson
{Rob,
sorry I didn't get a chance to return your call yesterday. I read
what you wrote on the CBS News piece and it sounds
like the same old
story. Cable's really put the crunch on the Big 3 networks,
so seeing
their news divisions whore for the diary industry
comes as no big
surprise.}
That's why we have
to work harder, Jeff. That's why
I do what I do, giving an 18 hour effort to this movement.
That is why I am doing everything I can to make EarthSave work.
That is why your work is so very important, and I continue
to be your biggest fan. Most people do not understand the
loves labor that it takes to do what we do.
{On
another topic, I know that John Robbins asked you to remove his
article from your soytoy and soy4life websites
the other day, and I see
that this hasn't happened yet. I think he asked that you link
to the
article on his site instead, if you want to, as
we always do to his
articles on VegSource.}
John became a shock
and disappointment to me, Jeff.
I'd rather keep the incident between myself and John.
That's where it appropriately belongs. You may have
noted that I took the article off of NOTMILK.COM
John has never supported
me, despite all of the good
things I have said and written about him. It is now
clear that he has an anti-Robert Cohen agenda. I
would rather not discuss John Robbins with you. What
happens is between him and me.
{We're
heading out soon for a long weekend in the snow, but I'll be
checking in on email.}
Enjoy! We too will
be getting our first snowstorm
of the winter in New York. After investing $900 in
a new snowblower, I thought that we'd miss the snow this
year. Well, I am looking forward to using my new toy...ONCE!
Regards,
Robert
================
Subject:
Re: howdy
Date:
Tue, 22 Jan 2002 09:35:37 -0800
From:
Jeff Nelson
Organization:
VegSource Interactive, Inc.
To:
Robert Cohen
Hi,
Rob:
I'm
not asking to "discuss John Robbins" with you. I don't know why
you
would think that.
I'm
asking you to respect his request to remove his article from two of your
sites, and replace them with links to the article
on his site, if you want
to do so.
I
don't know why you're making this a big deal. I don't allow people
to
reprint my articles like that on the net, and when
they ask me, I tell them
to do a link to vegsource.
Jeff
================
Subbject: howdy
Date: Tue,
22 Jan 2002 13:14:39 -0500
From: Robert Cohen
To:
Jeff Nelson
<Hi,
Rob:>
Hello, Jeff.
<I'm
not asking to "discuss John Robbins" with you.
I don't know why you would think that.>
Well, that sure is
a relief. I would hate to see
any differences of opinion or any problems that
I might have with a third party interfere with
our excellent relationship, Jeff.
<I'm
asking you to respect his request to remove
his article from two of your sites, and replace
them with links to the article on his site, if
you
want to do so.>
I would rather not
discuss John Robbins with you,
Jeff. The man knows how to get in touch with me,
and if he wants to discuss something, man-to-man,
that is his option. This has absolutely nothing
to do with you or vegsource.
<I
don't know why you're making this a big deal.>
I understand that,
and it is my choice not
to continue this discussion with anybody
else other than John Robbins.
<I
don't allow people to reprint my articles like
that on the net, and when they ask me, I tell them
to do a link to vegsource.>
<Jeff>
That certainly is
your choice, and I will honor
your request. I do not plan on printing any
articles that appear on vegsource in the near
future. In the past, I have promoted vegsource
as the best internet site for vegetarian information.
I will continue to do so because I believe that in
doing so, I further the future of our movement.
Just for the record,
I do have a policy of allowing
people to re-print my articles, so that others
might have the opportunity to benefit from the
things I say. I do so without asking for a link.
Many of my articles
find their way to nespapers.
They are reprinted without my permission. In a sense,
they become a part of the public domain. I am
satisfied with that definition of the World Wide Web.
If an article or column
or opinion is published, there
is an open window that exists for that written comment
to be re-published, so long as one receives no monetary
gain.
If I was to publish
all of the thousands of columns on
Vegsource into a book, and sell that book, you would have
a claim against me. I could, legally, re-print one or more
of your columns and give you appropriate credit, without
sending people to your website. HOWEVER, I am not about
to do that, Jeff, because I like you and have a lot
of respect for you.
Warm regards,
Robert
================
Subject:
Re: howdy
Date:
Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:53:25 -0800
From:
Jeff Nelson
Organization:
VegSource Interactive, Inc.
To:
Robert Cohen
Rob,
you're wrong about copyright law. I can't take one or two articles
from Salon.com and publish them on VegSource, and
then when Salon says,
"Hey, take those down!" I respond, "Screw you!" That's not
how the law
reads.
Fair
use laws allow me to reprint a part of an article or book, to quote
or comment on something as part of another work,
but not to just reprint
the whole article or book. Look what happened to FreeRepublic.com.
They were cutting and pasting articles from news
sites and they got into
a shitload of trouble and have fines and legals fees up the wazoo.
Yeah, they lost for reposting an AP article, because
the AP and
Washington Post and the rest of them decided to
go after them.
This
does involve me because I host sites for you, and I've found out
from someone (who happens to be a friend) that
you're running an article
of theirs that they don't want you to run. How you respond
to that is
very meaningful to me when I host your sites and
sites of your friends.
Plus,
without even knowing what you're talking about, it's clear to me
from your attitude here that you don't know John
Robbins much. I've
known him for years.
But
John Robbins is not the issue here, only how you respond when
someone who holds a copyright asks you to remove
their stuff. So far
you've refused. To me that's unbelievably unreasonable in
addition to
being wrong. John Robbins *has* already contacted
you about those two
sites, and you basically said Fuck you. Why John would want
to subject
himself to anymore of that would be beyond me.
I'm
waiting to hear from you that you're going to take those articles
down. So far I haven't heard that.
Jeff
================
Subject: howdy
Date: Tue,
22 Jan 2002 14:36:54 -0500
From: Robert Cohen
To:
Jeff Nelson
{Rob,
you're wrong about copyright law. I can't take one or two articles
from Salon.com and publish them on VegSource, and
then when Salon says,
"Hey, take those down!" I respond, "Screw you!" That's not
how the law
reads.}
I did not take one
or two columns from Salon.com and publish
them, Jeff. I posted one column on and received
written permission permission to do that. I also did not say "screw
you" to anyone.
{Fair
use laws allow me to reprint a part of an article or book, to quote
or comment on something as part of another work,
but not to just reprint
the whole article or book. Look what happened
to FreeRepublic.com.
They were cutting and pasting articles from news
sites and they got into
a shitload of trouble and have fines and legals fees up the wazoo.
Yeah, they lost for reposting an AP article, because
the AP and
Washington Post and the rest of them decided to
go after them.}
Guess what, Jeff.
You're talking about corporate assholes
litigating against each other. Is that what this is?
{This
does involve me because I host sites for you, and I've found out
from someone (who happens to be a friend) that
you're running an article
of theirs that they don't want you to run. How you respond
to that is
very meaningful to me when I host your sites and
sites of your friends.}
Jeff, you just took
an enormous leap from not getting
involved, to being very involved. Just for the record,
you host NOTMILK.COM and I appreciate it. I have removed
John Robbins article from that site. You do not host
the SoyToy.com site or Soy4Life.com site. If you did, I
wouyld have no problem continuing this conversation with you.
{Plus,
without even knowing what you're talking about, it's clear to me
from your attitude here that you don't know John
Robbins much. I've
known him for years.}
So?
{But
John Robbins is not the issue here, only how you respond when
someone who holds a copyright asks you to remove
their stuff. So far
you've refused. To me that's unbelievably unreasonable in
addition to
being wrong. John Robbins *has* already contacted
you about those two
sites, and you basically said Fuck you. Why John would want
to subject
himself to anymore of that would be beyond me.}
I never used that
kind of language, and never showed
disrespect to John Robbins. Had you received all of his
EMAILS, you might be humming a different tune. John
Robbins holds a grudge agains me, and quite clearly
expressed a hidden agenda.
{I'm
waiting to hear from you that you're going to take those articles
down. So far I haven't heard that.}
{Jeff}
I told you that I
am not going to discuss this with you.
You have no right to give me ultimatums. I have neither
used "fuck you" or "screw you" phrases. Nor have I threatened
litigation.
Regards,
Robert
================
Subject:
Re: howdy
Date:
Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:13:21 -0800
From:
Jeff Nelson
Organization:
VegSource Interactive, Inc.
To:
Robert Cohen
Rob:
I
think we have a fundamental disagreement about how one behaves and treats
people.
Here
are the facts. You asked for permission to repost the article.
It was
granted. You posted it on your sites. You were then
asked to remove it and
link instead to the original article, if you wanted.
In fact, I'm the one
who mentioned to John that he might want to institute
a policy like we have
on VegSource of having people link and come to
his own website to read
articles, rather than letting people just take the article on their
own
websites. I was trying to give John some
suggestions since he's so new to
having a website. I was the impetus of John writing you and
others asking
them to link to his site instead.
So
basically you decided to blow up at John for something I suggested.
But
you agreed to do that, while leveling insults at
John, and took it off
notmilk.com. Then you were told that that
applied to the other two sites of
yours as well, to please remove the article and
post a link instead, if you
wanted. For whatever reason -- and I can
think of none that are very good --
you have refused.
I
read what you said to John Robbins. It was worse than "screw you."
As I
said, I have no idea what you were talking about
to John when you call him an
egotistical corporate sellout, or whatever.
It's not based in reality. Why
you would think that John is not supportive of
you, I don't know. I've never
seen him go out of his way to try to hurt or badmouth
you or anyone. That's
not what he does, and I am in frequent contact with him so I believe
I would
know if he were like that.
Your
attitude, when you know that refusing to remove the article is bothering
John and bothering me, is that hey, you're entitled
to do it. Well, you're
not. It deeply concerns me that when someone
makes a very reasonable
request, you flip out and refuse it. It's true that the two
websites in
question are not ones I host for you, but I am
not comfortable with the way
you've conducted yourself here, Rob.
I'm
going to give you 24 hours to think about this, and I suggest you do
think about it before responding. If you're
hell-bent on keeping that
article up there, I think it's best that you find another place
to host your
websites.
Jeff
================
Subject: howdy
Date: Tue,
22 Jan 2002 15:30:44 -0500
From: Robert Cohen
To:
Jeff Nelson
Dear Dave [Rob's webmaster],
This is Jeff's final
answer, which I will not respond to.
Let's make plans to transfer the sites.
Regards,
Robert
================
Subject: howdy
Date: Tue,
22 Jan 2002 15:32:09 -0500
From: Robert Cohen
To:
Jeff Nelson
Dear Jeff,
I have instructed
Dave Rietz to transfer
all of my sites from vegsource to an alternate
internet service provider.
Regards,
Robert
================
Subject:
Re: howdy
Date:
Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:00:19 -0800
From:
Jeff Nelson
Organization:
VegSource Interactive, Inc.
To:
Robert Cohen
A
little quick on the trigger these days there, Rob. That's why I
said to think
about it for 24 hours, like I sometimes tell my son to count to
ten.
I
also saw what you wrote to Marr a bit ago, telling her she was sabotaging
you
or some such by calling agents and managers and
urging Woody Harrelson not to
show at your event years ago. Marr would
never ever do anything like that.
You're being paranoid about people who don't deserve
it, and it's disturbing.
The only thing I can figure is that there must
be something else going on in your
life to make you act like this. People are
allowed to disagree and have
different perceptions on things. They're
even allowed to think they don't like
someone else's approach. That doesn't mean
they're against you or out to get
you. The right thing on the John Robbins
situation would have been simply to
say, "Sure John, no problem," and take the article down and post
a link. That
doesn't take anything away from you. Instead
it's "I'm going to war!" Over
what? I make a suggestion to John, he takes
me up on it, and you flip out?
That's what you're angry about? It's not
healthy.
Good
luck.
Jeff
================
Subject: howdy
Date: Tue,
22 Jan 2002 16:24:24 -0500
From: Robert Cohen
To:
Jeff Nelson
{A
little quick on the trigger these days there, Rob. That's why I
said to think
about it for 24 hours, like I sometimes tell
my son to count to ten.}
You tell that to your
son? It's genetics, Jeff.
Wordsworth wrote that "the child is the father of the man."
{I
also saw what you wrote to Marr a bit ago, telling her she was sabotaging
you or some such by calling agents and managers
and urging Woody Harrelson
not to show at your event years ago. Marr would never ever do anything
like that.}
I got that directly
from somebody in Woody's camp.
I've also gotten feedback from radio and TV producers
that were firsthand and confidential information.
Marr has saboutaged me, while I paid her $1000 to get
celebrities for me at a press conference. What she
recently did on the Art Bell show was the last straw.
{You're
being paranoid about people who don't deserve it, and it's disturbing.
The only thing I can figure is that there must
be something else going on in
your life to make you act like this. People are allowed to disagree and
have
different perceptions on things. They're
even allowed to think they don't like
someone else's approach. That doesn't mean
they're against you or out to
get you. The right thing on the John Robbins situation would have
been simply
to say, "Sure John, no problem," and
take the article down and post a link.
That doesn't take anything away from you. Instead it's
"I'm going to war!"
Over what? I make a suggestion to John, he takes me up on it, and
you flip
out? That's what you're angry about?
It's not healthy.}
John Robbins admitted
to me that he does not support me and does not
want to be associated with me. Did he not share that EMAIL with you?
He has a clear agenda.
Regards,
Robert
================
Subject:
Re: howdy
Date:
Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:43:49 -0800
From:
Jeff Nelson
Organization:
VegSource Interactive, Inc.
To:
Robert Cohen
Robert Cohen
wrote:
>
{A little quick on the trigger these days there, Rob. That's
why I said to think about it for 24 hours, like I sometimes
tell my son to count to ten.}
>
> You tell that to
your son? It's genetics, Jeff.
> Wordsworth wrote that "the child is the father
of the man."
And
the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I got a great kid.
:-)
>
> {I also saw what you wrote to Marr a bit
ago, telling her she was sabotaging you or some such by calling agents
and managers
and urging Woody Harrelson not to show at your event years ago.
Marr would never ever do anything like that.}
>
> I got that directly from somebody in Woody's camp.
> I've also gotten feedback from radio and TV
producers
> that were firsthand and confidential information.
> Marr has saboutaged me, while I paid her $1000
to get
> celebrities for me at a press conference. What she
> recently did on the Art Bell show was the
last straw.
Sorry,
I can't believe that Marr would trash you anywhere. I've known
Marr very well for years, she comes over to our house
a lot. I've talked
about lots of things and people with Marr, including you. If she
were going
to be trashing you to strangers, she
certainly would have been trashing you
to me. But she never has. She was just shocked and really
hurt when you
attacked her. The fact that you can't give names or witnesses or
anyone
who would stand up and say she did these
terrible things, makes it impossible
for her to defend herself. On top of that,
someone may have lied to you. Maybe
*they* didn't want you and they put it on Marr. I just know that Marr is hardworking, dedicated,
honest, trustworthy, and doesn't have the time or energy to
play games like that.
>
{You're being paranoid about people who don't deserve it, and it's disturbing.
The only thing I can figure is that there
must be something else going on in your life to make you act like this.
People are allowed to disagree and have
> different perceptions on things. They're even allowed
to think they don't like someone else's approach. That doesn't
mean
they're against you or out to get you. The right thing on the John
Robbins situation would have been simply to say, "Sure
John, no problem," and take the article down and post a link. That
doesn't take anything away from you. Instead it's
"I'm going to war!" Over what? I make a suggestion to John,
he takes me up on it, and you flip out? That's what
you're angry about? It's not healthy.}
>
> John Robbins admitted to me that
he does not support me and does not
> want to be associated with me. Did he not
share that EMAIL with you?
> He has a clear agenda.
John's
agenda is he wants you to remove his article from your websites.
Your not removing it looks vindictive. I did see
John's email to you in
which he said he doesn't want to appear to be endorsing your products
when he believes you conducted yourself
badly vis-a-vis Walsh's criticisms
of your tomfoolerly article. I did see that email John sent you,
*after* you
pissed all over him and called him names.
Perhaps
you think that you're so big and famous in the movement that you
no longer have to be nice to people. If that's the
case, it's really unfortunate.
No man is an island.
Jeff
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