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From:	Bryanna (NewVeggies.vegsource.com)
Subject:	Re: Creatine
Date:	June 19, 2008 at 11:51 am PST

In Reply to: Creatine posted by Jeremiah on June 19, 2008 at 6:41 am:

There is some difference of opinion on this. In the end, you will have to read alot and decide for yourself.

Here's one article:
http://www.viva.org.uk/guides/foodofchampions.htm

There is a short abstract of a study comparing omni and veg athletes with and without creatine here:
http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/21/6/LB60-b

Also read:
http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/amino

Some vegan athletes take creatine supplements (synthetic and not derived from animal sources-- see http://www.herbalremedies.com/micrmopo600g.html). There is a Vegetarian Journal article that covers this:
http://www.vrg.org/journal/vj2003issue4/vj2003issue4weight.htm

Arginine (which is available in soyfoods) plays a key role in stimulating the release of hormones that promote muscle formation, and is required for the formation of a compound known as 'creatine phosphate', which is one of the most important sources of energy for muscles 11, 12, 13. For athletes, arginine may play a key role in muscle formation, blood vessel health and in helping to maintain a strong and healthy immune system.
DiPasquale M, Conditionally essential amino acids, In: Amino Acids and Proteins for the Athlete. New York, NY: CRC Press, Inc. 1997:127-145.

About vegan athletes:
http://www.bryannaclarkgrogan.com/page/page/2264686.htm#44007

Here are some vegetarian bodybuilder sites:
http://vegetarianbodybuilder.com/94.html

http://billpearl.com/

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/vegetarian-bodybuilding.aspx

http://www.muscleprogram.com/vegetarianbodybuildingisitpossible/

Here are some notes from the international vegetarian Union website:

Q. "How can I 'bulk up' and develop muscles on a vegetarian/vegan diet, instead of eating meat and taking creatine?"

from Vesanto Melina, MS, RD:

"Regarding creatine question for athletes: The following information came from a sports nutrition presentation at American Dietetics Association convention, October 1998, which I attended. Then I have added practical information related to my books.

A presentation by PhD Dr. Robert Murray explained that creatine is hydrophilic and retains water in the body, thus the bulking up effect is due to water, and generally occurs with creatine. You may not get that water effect without creatine.

Creatine has not been shown to improve athletic performance; sports specialist Dr. Murray said that reliable research had not shown creatine to be effective in improving athletic performance. Research reports that showed anything like this were done in a misleading way.

Furthermore, the effects of creatine over the long term are not known. Long term use could, for example, suppress one's ability to make creatine or have damaging side effects.

This water effect is not actual increase in muscle. I find that sometimes vegan athletes aren't familiar with tasty and easy ways to prepare tofu (such as the tofu fingers in our "Becoming Vegetarian" and "Cooking Vegetarian" books) and don't know easy ways to include high protein foods such as lentils and other legumes in the diet. They also may not know vegan ways to get enough calories. (Or to accommodate such challenges as cooking for one, having limited cooking facilities, eating at restaurants a lot.)

For further information, and details of Vesanto's speaking tours see: www.nutrispeak.com

from John Toomey, Australia:

"This is one of my favorite topics. Having worked for several years in Professional Football in Australia and having close links with many Sports Science professionals in the NFL, I can assure you that Creatine is a waste of time.

Vesanto hit the nail on the head. It causes a major flow of water into the muscle cell. You can pick footballers who start using it without authorisation because they get a puffy appearance. Long term use may well be harmful.

Having been a Vegan for 20 years, I have introduced many professional footballers to a vegan diet style, with many wonderful results. When it comes down to it, I have never believed in hyper protein consumption. I have never seen it do anyone a lot of good. Very lean athletes have really only one path to take to gain weight. That is, once you are getting enough protein (which requires no special effort) and enough carbohydrate (about 8 grams per kilogram of body weight) and try to make that unrefined carbohydrate, the aim should be calories, calories, calories after that.

The best, most healthful source of additional calories are monounstaurates. So, I suggest adding at least one Avocado and a half cup of Olive Oil to your daily diet. I used this with many footballers and just watched them grow, without getting fat.
Remember, weight gain requires calories. If you are doing the resistance training, you will stimulate muscle growth. All you have to do is provide the calories, healthfully. Good luck.

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